Do you think M.J. is overrated?

He is great and might be the best from the 90s but to say he is the best ever. What about Bird, Magic, West, Bill Russel, Chamberlain, Kareem........I could go on for hours.





Bill got 50 rebounds in a game and got rings in 11 out of 13 seasons with the celtics.





MJ is MJ because of his shoes and commericals.








If any other player got all the hype he got will he become the best player in history. They tried to give that label to Bird but he didn't want it.





And they sometimes talk about MJ as if he invented the game.





He is great but not best.

Do you think M.J. is overrated?
MJ is the best because he knew how to win games he hit so many clutch game winnig shots and was great at both ends of the court.
Reply:A lot of good comments made in the above.





I think that Jordan is underrated defensively as Jordan is probably the best outside perimeter defender in the history of the NBA with Bill Russell being the best big man as the best inside defender in basketball history.





I think that Jordan was the best player of the 1990s.





Neither was particularly my favorite, but Bill Russell has to be the #1 big man in basketball history while Magic, who I disliked from his college days until his last healthy season in the NBA when I actually started to see how good Magic was as a team player (Russell was a great team player too) instead of holding it against Magic for the college hype and Magic always beating up on the Golden Gophers as Magic has to be the #1 best outside perimeter player in the history of basketball.





Bill Russell has one more NCAA title and a number more NBA rings than does either Jordan or Magic.





1)Russell was 7-1 in playoff series against Chamberlain


2)Russell was 6-0 in playoff series against Elgin Baylor (5-0 with Eglin Baylor and Jerry West as teammates)


3)Russell was 6-0 in playoff series against Jerry West (5-0 with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor as teammates and 1-0 with Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain as teammates)


4)Russell was 3-0 in playoff series against Hall of Famers guard Oscar Robertson and center Jerry Lucas as teammates)


5)Russell was 3-1 in playoff series against Hall of Famer Bob Pettit (Pettit has most consecutive First Team All NBA honors in NBA history)





Russell won 8 straight NBA rings.





Russell's Celtics lost only 2 playoff series in 13 years. Those losses were to Chamberlain's 1967 Philadelphia 76ers often considered to best team in NBA history for several decades to follow, and, also to Bob Pettit (Pettit had the most consecutive First Team All NBA honors along with 2 regular season MVP awards), but Russell dominated Chamberlain and Pettit during all other playoff series with those two Hall of Famers.





And, as pointed out before above, the Celtics never won a NBA title until Russell's rookie year (other rookies to win NBA titles are Magic and Lew Alcindor (Russell, Magic, and Alcindor all won NCAA titles and the following year won a NBA title) while it took Tim Duncan until his second year to win a NBA title with Jordan taking 7 years (Jordan was what 10 or 11 years between a NCAA title and a NBA title) and Shaq taking 8 years before winning a NBA title).





After Russell retired, the Celtics only won two NBA titles in the next dozen years.





The only thing constant for the Celtics during Russell's 11 NBA titles was Bill Russell as players came and went.





It is funny that MJ used to have an advertisement, Nike I think, on how he, MJ, had missed 40 some odd last second shots in key games... the biggest shots I recall in the NBA Finals in Bulls closeout games were made by role players and former Spurs players in Jim Paxson and Steve Kerr both hitting baskets at the buzzer to win Bulls championships. Yeah, okay, MJ got an assist on both of those shots, but it was not MJ who took the last second shot to win a NBA title in those two different NBA championship years for MJ and the Bulls.





MJ is great, but he is not the best ever.





By the way, Russell had to guard a 400 pound Chamberlain, the first NBA player heavy into weight lifting with practically zero body fat, in the era of the NBA rules from 1961 to 2001 which did not allow technically for double teaming or zones and required one on one defense, and, there was no semi-circle under the basket as in the mid and late Shaq era which gave Shaq the right to knock down anyone in his way which already really existed only for Shaq before the 2001 NBA defensive rules change which would allow Shaq to knock anyone over on Shaq's limited offensive moves in his NBA career.





So, yes, Russell had to handle one on one arguably the strongest man ever to play in NBA history who was Wilt Chamberlain. If Russell could handle Chamberlain who had a fairly good offensive game with an excellent mid range shot, then Russell in his prime could have handled Shaq one on one particularly considering Shaq was not as strong as Chamberlain, Shaq did not weigh as much as Chamberlain, and Shaq did not have the offensive skills or moves or jumping ability of Chamberlain.
Reply:Michael Jordan, as great a basketball player as he is, the media helped him a lot to be where he is in the world of basketball.





With due respect to Bill Russell, Kareem, Bird, i have to give the tag of best player ever to Magic Johnson (in my lifetime)! He made everybody around him better. A winner through and through. MVP final four out of college, then followed it with a finals MVP in the pro league. He did not have the points to show but his team scored more than the other. He willed his team to win. He had transformed nobodies to somebodies. Byron Scott was great when he was with the Lakers as he had Magic but went pfft when Magic retired, Kareem played longer as Magic made him enjoy the game and the fans as well, James Worthy scored tons of points because of Magic penchant of finding him whenever he is open. I mean, this guy is selfless. Magic helped Cooper's game tremendously with drills only the two of them can come up with. Everybody listened to Magic when he talked.





I say Magic is the best. If i were a basketball pro, i want to play with Magic on my team. I'm assured of scoring a point when i'm with him on the floor. He'll not take all those shots. He'll give me the ball when I'm open and there is the opportunity to score.
Reply:no
Reply:Easy first of Magic says MJ was the best so he does not argue it.


As for West, Chamberlain, Kareem, none of those guys


were as good a defensive player.


Russell was not as good a offensive player.





Only thing Russell has is he was a great team player, but


he played with the Celtics which were a great organization


before he got there. You put Russell on the Bulls and


see how many titles he would get, don't forget Russell


played with the best players on his team.





Jordan played with Bill Wellinton or something like that


as the center.





Jordan has the best scoring average in the playoffs


not only that, he would shut people down and get


steals. Combined offensively and defensively there


is no one better.





and Robert Horry has 7 titles he was just lucky enough


to be playing with great players.
Reply:Hel No ! Jordan has 6 rings........I repeat 6 rings. He must have been doing something right. His shoes are not only sold because of the name its because of the design and the quality of them. Jordan is the greatest player ever hands down !
Reply:First of all "Bill Walton"....Magic has ALWAYS said that Larry Bird was the best player he ever played against, but that's irrelevant. Magic completely dominated Jordan in the 1991 finals, so I guess that means that Magic is better than Jordan.





In his first 3 years in the league, Jordan "led" his teams to 3 losing records. And, he didn't start racking up championships until Pippen and Grant showed up and Bird %26amp; Magic retired.





Everyone makes a big deal out of the Bulls 6 titles, but keep in mind that Bird and Magic would have had at least that many, had the other not existed. The Bulls won all of their championships in a watered down league.





Take a look at how important these three were to their team's success:





1984 Bulls- 27 wins


1985 Bulls- 38 wins w/rookie Jordan





1979 Lakers- 47 wins w/Kareem, Dantley, Wilkes


1980 Lakers- 60 wins w/rookie Magic, Kareem, Wilkes (no Dantley)





1979 Celtics- 29 wins


1980 Celtics- 61 wins w/rookie Bird





The Lakers won a championship in Magic's rookie season, and the Celtics won the title in Bird's second season. It took Jordan 7 years to win his first.





1993 Bulls- 57 wins w/Jordan


1994 Bulls- 55 wins without Jordan





1980-1991 Lakers- 54+ wins every year


1991 Lakers- 58 wins


1992 Lakers- 43 wins without Magic





1980-88 Celtics- 56+ wins every year


1989 Celtics- 42 wins with Bird out, despite having Parish, McHale, DJ, Ainge, and Reggie Lewis.





As you can see the Celtics/Lakers were more helped or hurt by whether Bird and Magic were there than the Bulls were with Jordan.





And also "Bill Walton"...Wilt was ,AT WORST, the 3rd best defensive player of his era. You need to check your history before making any more moronic statements like that.





And Russell didn't have to score on the Celtics. He was usually the third scoring option. He was willing to sacrifice his personal glory for the better of his team, unlike Jordan, who wouldn't dream of giving up his scoring titles.





Michael Jordan was one of the 15 greatest players to ever play, the the hype has blown it way out of proportion.


________________________





"SCORE1952".....correction-Lew Alcinder won the championship in his SECOND SEASON. In his rookie year, the Bucks lost to the Knicks (who would go on to defeat the Lakers in that memorable 1970 finals series). Still a great feat nonetheless, considering the Bucks were in their third year of existance.


_________________________





"BOB T"....are you for real?!?.....obviously you didn't read my post before answering. Larry Bird joined a team that had only won 29 games. He led them to the best record in the league (61 WINS!!). He didn't have Parish, McHale, DJ or Ainge on that team.





In 1989, with Bird missing all but 6 games, and having HOFer's McHale %26amp; Parish, and all stars DJ, Ainge, and Reggie Lewis on the team, the Celtics barely made it above the .500 mark, and were swept in the first round.





Jordan retires from the Bulls and they only drop 2 GAMES!!. They were a good team with or without Jordan.
Reply:He's definitely not my favorite player, but considering his offensive and defensive skills, he's the best I have seen.
Reply:Hey!....Bill Walton.....put the weed down for a MINUTE!


Russell was the leader of the Celtics.........


The Celtics never won anything before Russell came there!!..


His Rookie year they won a championship!..he did'nt need seven years and a watered down league to win!...he won 5 championships without Bob Cousy!...Jordan never won a playoff series without Pippen there to save him!!





Bill Walton has been to one too many Grateful Dead Concerts!!!!....his Brain is up "Purple Creek"





jordan played with Pippen(the greatest allaround Forward of his generation)..Rodman(the greatest defensive player of his generation)..Grant!....Kerr(who was a great 3 point shooter before going to the Bulls)....





the Bulls were a great team even without Jordan...as proved in 1994 when Jordan retired!.....take Magic off the Lakers, would they win 55 games?...or bird off the Celtics?...Or Russell?....MJ is overrated!
Reply:I believe that if a championship is gained 6 times by a spectacular performance of a player,I believe that this guy deserves to be the best.
Reply:no
Reply:Very Overrated!!! He sold a lot of shoes!





Bill Russell, of course, was the greatest winner in the history of ANY sport. His career W/L pct was .705, Jordan's was more about 60 points below that.





Russell:


11 rings (that's even more than six, believe it or not)


10 fingers


2 NCAA championshps


5 MVPs


Olympic gold medal on the most dominant team in Olympic history, the only team to ever win their games by an average of more than 50 points per game. Russell averaged 14 ppg in the Olympics, same as Jordan on the Dream Team. Not bad for a guy who wasn't a scorer, but REALLY bad for a guy who WAS! LOL





The 92 Dream Team SHOULD have won by more than 50 ppg, but thanks to Jordan's LOUSY shooting (he shot .451, the only NBA player on the team to shoot under 50 per cent), they only won by about 44 pts per game. Jordan's lousy shooting wouldn't have had the effect it did if he didn't shoot so much, taking 36% more shots than any of his teammates.





Plus, Russell did this during a time when the press hated, and I mean hated him.





Russell, unlike Jordan, spoke out about the political issues of the day. Jordan's been completely gutless when it comes to standing for anything.





Jordan never had to put up with any of the racially motivated inhumane treatment that Russell had to contend with simply by living in Boston.





Jordan never went to any city to play basketball only to be told that he couldn't eat in any of the city's diners or restaurants.





Jordan would have run home crying to his mommy the first time he ever ran into the racism and prejudice that Russell faced everywhere he went.





Russell took stands on the issues of the day, so not only was he the greatest winner in the history of any team sport, he was also infinitely superior to Jordan has a man.





Russell's 11 titles represent the greatest number of championships ANY player has EVER won in ANY team sport.





LOL, drafted Kwame Brown LOL Great job Mike!





Heck, Russell was so much of a TEAM guy that he didn't even bother showing up for his own Hall of Fame induction. He never cared about individual awards, the one and ONLY thing that mattered to him was WINNING.








Also, Jordan NEVER won a playoff series without Scottie Pippen as a teammate (Pippen did win some playoff series after Jordan's first retirement).





Jordan's playoff record without Pippen as a teammate was ONE win and NINE loses. This hardly suggests the greatest player of all time.





Jordan played 15 seasons, and played on FIVE losing teams. On none of the five losing teams was Scottie Pippen his teammate.





In other words, Jordan never even played on a .500 team without Scottie Pippen.





Seems to me that the greatest player of all time should at least be able to lead his team to a .500 record, without the help of another top 50 player. Alas, such was not the case with Michael.





The collective W/L record for Jordan's five teams without Pippen as a teammate was 182 wins and 228 loses, a WHOPPING .444 winning (or should I say losing) percentage.





Pippen however, played on 16 winning teams in 17 seasons. And only Kareem Abdul Jabbar won more playoff games than Pippen, thanks to the fact that Scottie could win without MIchael. Pippen's only losing team was in his final season, in which he only played 23 games before retiring.
Reply:well he did average 25 throughout his carreer. and he was basically a one man team, i know there were others but he did everything. bird was good but he had a solid team around him along with the other names you listed. i know what ur thinking mj had a solid team but it was only SOLID because he was there. the seasons after his retirement the bulls sucked. also the buzzer beatin shots he made. idk if the players u listed were as CLUTCH meaning, he played alot better in tough situations and when they needed it.





Others were great no question. But when you look at where jordan started its just an amazing story. From a crappy player to the GREAT. he had the most heart hands down.
Reply:Bird - very good player


Magic - great player


West - very good


Russell - good player, a winner


Chamberlain - great player (but competition sucked)


Kareem - great player (esp first half of his career)


MJ - BEST EVER!!!!!





you're wrong; MJ is the greatest ever
Reply:I do agree that Mike is overrated most of the time, but I think you are underrating him.





I have a problem with people judging greatness by how many rings they have. Rings do not measure the greatness of Michael Jordan, it measures the greatness of those Bulls basketball teams. Same with Bill Russell. Russell has 11 rings, a fantastic accomplishment, I will always consider him a hero of mine. But there is no way in hell you can convince me that he can guard Shaq! He may have been more dominant in his era but he will get worked out in todays NBA. Wilt, on the other hand, can. He won't have another 100pt game or average 50 in a season, but he would still be a dominant 25pts 12rebs and 2.5blks. Same with Mike, he can dominate any game in any era. Even when he was playing against Magic, Bird, Drexler, Barkley, Malone and Stockton, they were in awe. He's even great to great people. I bet Dr.J's head got big everytime MJ said he was his idol. How can you overrate that? I don't like when people talk about "He's great because he has 6 rings"...so does Pippen, Robert Horry has 7. Where is he on the "Greatest of all Times" list? But if you wanna talk about his 3 pointers in the Finals against Portland, or his changing hands in midflight and goint to the reverse against L.A. or his steal on Karl Malone on one end and then hitting the freethrow jumper on Russell after the little push. I'm all ears. I don't know if he's the best of all times because I haven't seen them all play, but he's definately the 2nd best player I've seen in my lifetime.


KOBE'S #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:No way is M.J. overrated did you see this guy play in his prime. He totally dominated the leauge. I am not saying that there are not guys that dominate the NBA right now, but you also have to remember that the NBA now and the NBA 10 years ago is so different. Nba back then used to have as much energy that college basketball games have today. Players were giving it there all and fighting for play off contentions. Now guys are out there just showboating and seeing how many points they can score. I would take Jordan over anyone in his prime.
Reply:No, he is the greatest. He changed the game. He took basketball and reinvigorated it. When he retired, NBA ratings dropped 60%. I would like you to go on for hours naming people who were better than Jordan. All the people you named were great and some of them might have had more talent than Jordan, but none of them were better. Kobe Bryant has more talent than Jordan ever had, but he will never be better.





Jordan not only changed the game, but he made everyone he played with better. Other than maybe Pippen, Jordan was the only superstar player. All those guys you named had a core of superstars. Everyone wanted to beat Jordan, but they couldn't.





Jordan did invent the modern day game. Yeah, you can go on about all those people and their records. The 1996 Bulls won 72 games and lost 10. The shorts that are worn now are because of Jordan, he was the first person to wear the baggy shorts. He also is the record holder for most points in a playoff game, 63.





Michael Jordan is the greatest ever, his only mistake was coming back and playing for the Wizards. But based on talent and what he brought to the game, no one compares to Jordan.
Reply:why is everybody still talkin about that washed up old man... people still waste money buyin his shoes and everything too... doesnt he get social security checks by now
Reply:Michael Jordan is overrated, but you have to admit that he is one of the greastest basketball players of all time. Like Bird and Magic, or even more than both of them combined, Michael Jordan changed the game of basektball. He brought a lot of entertainment. Most people who know nothing about basketball know only one basektball player: Michael Jordan. Maybe it is because of the shoes and the commercials and all the hype, but he had a lot of talent. No one denies the fact that Bird, Magic, Russel, and many more are more or less talented. But, the reason he got all the hype is because of his skill. I do realize what you said about Bird, but do you think he could've pulled it off as great as MJ? Maybe, maybe not. I respect the fact that there are other great players, and that Jordan is a bit overrated.
Reply:no



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